lee helm was Re: [Rhodes22-list] Purchasing new genny????

[Mary Lou Troy]

Peter,
Our lee helm is more noticeable in light air - though even in higher 
windspeeds we need to furl with the helm in mind. It is more prominent on 
port tack - maybe something to do with the big outboard on the port stern 
or the heavy galley to starboard or....?  We seem to have more issues than 
other R22s. I've heard a number of reports of lee helm or neutral in light 
air but we've had significant lee helm at 10 knots. We've made lots of 
changes with weight distribution, making sure the centerboard drops all the 
way and tightening the backstays. Some of these improved the situation but 
it's still there. This year we're going to let the forestay out a notch at 
the masthead. We meant to do it last year but forgot and it wasn't enough 
of a problem to drop the mast again. Sailing with the 175 all the way out 
(light air), we have the lead cars all the way back on the genoa track. Are 
you suggesting that with it partially furled we should keep the cars a bit 
further aft than we might ordinarily? We'll have to try to remember that. 
As might be expected, we also can make improvements playing with the 
traveler. We didn't get many opportunities to sail in steady winds last 
year so most of our playing around was from the year before.

Not really sure about our ideal big genoa. For a long time I thought it 
would be smaller than a 175 but we had 6 or 7 sails this past year where 
the 175 was just perfect. Don't know if we'd have done nearly as well with 
a 155 or 160 but maybe so. It would definitely be lighter than the current 
very heavy sailcloth. The heaviness is necessary I suppose if you are never 
going to change sails but I like the idea of having several.  I'll be 
interested to hear what Wally thinks once he has his new sail - whatever it 
is.

Mary Lou




At 12:58 PM 3/14/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>Mary Lou,
>
>Just a thought...   To get rid of lee helm with your 175, have you tried
>moving the genoa lead tack point much farther aft on the genoa track?  This
>should spill air from the top of the sail, lower the headsail's center of
>effort, and, combined with an appropriate amount of furling for the
>conditions, perhaps help to balance the helm.  I agree that you would also
>want to keep as much main out as possible, as you suggested, to maintain the
>Center of  Effort  farther aft and that the IMF, with no roach, would tend
>to aggravate this condition because it's CE is farther forward.
>
>Under what conditions do you develop lee helm?
>
>What size and weight would your "ideal big genoa" be?
>
>Fair winds,
>
>PT
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mary Lou Troy" <mltroy at verizon.net>
>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 9:04 AM
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Purchasing new genny????
>
>
>Wally, we reduce sail well before 20 knots (actual or apparent) windspeed.
>Our 175 seems to be the perfect sail from 4 to 10 knots. I suspect we begin
>to furl it a little before 10 if it's gusty. I don't think we've ever tried
>Bill's method of furling the main more than the genny as we are always
>trying to get rid of lee helm. For the record we don't like the 175 for
>much below 4 knots of wind - the sailcloth is just too heavy to keep the
>sail full in any kind of wave action - that's one of the reasons we went to
>the UPS for really light air.
>
>My current thinking on an ideal set of sails for our boat and the way we
>sail would be the UPS, a somewhat lighter big genoa and a heavier 125-130.
>
>I think a standard main with a roach would affect heeling differently than
>the IMF main. I also suspect (but don't know) that furling our mains the
>way we do makes them more susceptible to having them develop a blown out
>belly and that this may affect heeling as well. I've also noticed that it
>is easier to get a flatter main with our new through-the-boom outhaul
>arrangement - we used to have to tie the outhaul off to a horn cleat so it
>was not very adjustable on the go.
>
>Mary Lou
>
>
>At 10:27 AM 3/13/2004 -0500, you wrote:
> >I have IMF. I am amazed at the range of comments regarding wind speed and
> >sail selection. I don't see how it could matter if I had IMF or Standard
> >main. My boat needs sails reduced in 20 plus.
> >
> >Wally
> >
> >
> >>From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> >>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Purchasing new genny????
> >>Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:59:49 -0500
> >>
> >>Standard main or IMF?
> >>
> >>Bill Effros
> >>
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: Wally Buck
> >>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >>Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:14 AM
> >>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Purchasing new genny????
> >>
> >>
> >>My boat must be light or something. At 20 heading upwind my 125 is furled
>to
> >>keep me off the rail and I am fighting a 30 degree heel.  Most likely the
> >>boom is lowered halfway as well. I like exciting sails as much as anyone
>and
> >>more than most. Too bad you can't try sails out and return them like
>clothes
> >>that don't quite fit!
> >>
> >>Still have an open mind .....
> >>
> >>Wally
> >>
> >> >From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> >> >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> >To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Purchasing new genny????
> >> >Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:04:45 -0500
> >> >
> >> >Twice in one day.
> >> >
> >> >Again, Wally, I agree with Rummy.  I rarely furl below 20 knots.  I sail
> >> >the boat upright with minimum heel.  I generally sail alone.  The 175
>makes
> >> >it very easy to come about.  I adjust sail sizes to keep the boat well
> >> >balanced.  When I'm sailing in crowded harbors I reduce the size of the
>175
> >> >so I can see the traffic better.
> >> >
> >> >Bill Effros
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >----- Original Message -----
> >> >From: R22RumRunner at aol.com
> >> >To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >> >Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 5:18 PM
> >> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Purchasing new genny????
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Wally,
> >> >When you furl depends a lot on your style of sailing and how much
>ballast
> >> >(people weight) you have with you. When alone, I never furl until the
>winds
> >> >gust
> >> >above 20 knots. Below that and I'm comfortable. The 175 is an awesome
>sail.
> >> >Besides looking good, it is an excellent performer in lite air as Bill
> >> >mentioned. By the way, I think this is one of the first times anyone has
> >> >agreed with me
> >> >on the list.....I appreciate your support Bill.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Rummy
> >> >__________________________________________________
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> >> >__________________________________________________
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> >>
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