[Rhodes22-list] Satire: Memorial Day Origins - Thank You R-22Veterans (for Bill and a Consolidated Response)

Philip Esteban 3drecon at comcast.net
Sat May 28 14:26:32 EDT 2005


Bill,
   I heard the other day on the news that Memorial day was established
around 1946/48 to honour the Armed Services consolidating Army, Navy and Air
Corps (Air Force) days.  If that grew out of the War of Northern Aggression
;') I don't know.
   As for my many e-mails these past few days, if you didn't see my previous
one on this topic, I read and answered them in sequence.  I could have
probably consolidated answers if I read them all first, but I delete them as
I read them and wanted to stay on topic.  I don't change the subject line
much because I usually "reply" to what is posted.
    My opinions, as I told Alex, are mine.  If you have valid arguments,
other information or just a different opinion, that is fine with me.  It
would be pretty boring if someone wrote an opinion and everyone on the list
always wrote back "Here, here!"  When I write my opinion, it is generally in
response to someone else's comment and I try to give as much background as I
can.  The personal anectodotes are to bolster my comments about situations I
have read about, seen on the news then, lo and behold, experienced myself.
Often when we read about things in the news or hear them on radio or TV we
say, that doesn't happen here, then we look at our situation and find it is
the same.
    I agree with you (as I have mentioned before) that we shouldn't have
invaded Iraq, but as a soldier, once the decision is taken, I follow the
orders as long as they are legal (you could argue the legal context of the
war but I didn't want to start that discussion, I mean if you want to be
technical, Israel is in violation of UN resolutions and has nuclear weapons
(WMD)).  Although I neither agreed with the invasion now nor in 1991, I
salute the flag and drive on and I can see the strategic benefits of
securing the Persian Gulf.  Like it or not, for the forseable future we are
wedded to oil and must ensure the supplies are uninterupted.  Furthermore;
the best defense is a good offense.  There have been no terrorist attacks in
this country since we took the fight to them.  Two countries in the region
now have democratically elected governments and Libya has complied with UN
resolutions and, more or less, normalized relations while Syria has pulled
out of the Bekaa Valley in Lebanon.  Not all the outcomes have been bad
ones.  I can agree with you on many topics, but I am pragmatic enough to
know that we change what we can and abide what we cannot.  My job is to do
the best for my soldiers that I can.  When I left USCENTCOM junior solders
continually asked me when I would return and still send me e-mails asking
when I will be back.  It is difficult for me to let them down.
   No, I don't have a boat yet.  I have explained that too.  Hopefully I
will have one soon enough.  I don't mean to offend and if my opinions do,
well, sorry, but they are mine.  I hope this explains my point of view a
bit.  Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Philip E.

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 12:38 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Satire: Memorial Day Origins - Thank You
R-22Veterans


Brad,

It sure didn't take you long to turn a question into a fight.  I was
perfectly happy to let everyone come to their own conclusions.

Our Memorial Day was a memorial to our Civil War dead.  When I was a
kid, it was not celebrated in Tennessee or any of the other Confederate
states.   In fact, there was considerable hostility in the South to the
Northern celebration of Memorial Day which manifested itself in a
counter-tradition of big Southern picnics, culminating in automobile
races to show disdain for the solemnity of the Northern celebrations.
Southern states commemorated their Civil War dead on a different day.

Well, the South won that one, didn't they?

Nobody either remembers or cares who Memorial Day is supposed to
memorialize.

Veterans Day is November 11th.and is the day put aside to remember our
Veterans of all wars.  That used to be Armistice Day, the day put aside
to commemorate the end of the "War to End all Wars".  But nobody
remembers that either.

"The world will little note nor long remember what we say here, but it
can never forget what they did here."  Lincoln got that part backwards,
but the full text of Lincoln's Gettysburg Address follows anyhow.

There are no R-22 Civil War Veterans to Memorialize on Memorial Day,
(not even Stan) and waving a flag between six packs of beer won't change
that.

Bill Effros

Fourscore and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this
continent a new nation, conceived in liberty and dedicated to the
proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation or
any nation so conceived and so dedicated can long endure. We are met on
a great battlefield of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of
that field as a final resting-place for those who here gave their lives
that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we
should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we cannot dedicate, we cannot consecrate, we
cannot hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead who struggled
here have consecrated it far above our poor power to add or detract. The
world will little note nor long remember what we say here, but it can
never forget what they did here. It is for us the living rather to be
dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have
thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to
the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we
take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full
measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall
not have died in vain, that this nation under God shall have a new birth
of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the
people shall not perish from the earth.

Abraham Lincoln
Gettysburg Address
November 19, 1863






brad haslett wrote:

>Bill,
>
>How far back in history do you want to go?  One
>argument is that the tradition of Memorial Day dates
>back 2500 years when Greek communities set aside a day
>to honor local heros.  The tradition in this country
>traces its history to shortly after the Civil War.
>Several communities claim to be the "first" and LBJ
>officially designated Waterloo, NY as the birthplace.
>Substantial evidence indicates that it was in 1866
>when some women from Columbus, Mississippi traveled to
>Shilo to decorate the graves of fallen Confederate
>soldiers.  I go with that one.
>
>Why don't you come visit me Bill.  Shilo is five
>minutes from the "CoraShen".  My family will go there
>tomorrow as we do on every Memorial Day weekend.  You
>and I can walk down to the river and stand on the spot
>where young boys from Iowa, having been issued guns
>only an hour before on their steamship, rushed to the
>"Hornets Nest" for their final resting place.  From
>there we can drive to Franklin, TN and stand on
>Winstead hill and look over the plain where John Bell
>Hood sent over 1700 of his troops to their deaths in
>less than four hours, one of the bloodiest battles in
>American History.  We can have lunch on the grounds of
>the Carter House where a young kid from Wisconsin,
>named MacArthur was making coffee when the morning
>silence was broken by cannon shot.  MacArthur
>distinguished himself that day and later fathered a
>famous son who did the same in WW2.  Then we can drive
>to Nashville and follow the retreat of a dying army in
>a lost cause.  The list goes on and on.
>
>Many of these soldiers we honor from that period were
>new immigrants who didn't speak English.  They left
>their homes in Europe to escape oppression and pursue
>their dreams in America, same as immigrants, legal and
>otherwise do now.  Like all soldiers in our history,
>they believed in something bigger than themselves,
>even if it was just to be a part of small unit and
>protect their fellow brothers in arms.
>
>Soldiers in our country don't make policy, civilian
>leaders do.  They should not be judged by the wisdom
>of the fight, the choice is not theirs to make.  I'll
>leave this subject with the words of another man who
>started his political career nine miles from my
>hometown in Illinois.
>
>But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can
>not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground.
>The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here,
>have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add
>or detract. The world will little note, nor long
>remember what we say here, but it can never forget
>what they did here. It is for us the living, rather,
>to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they
>who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is
>rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task
>remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we
>take increased devotion to that cause for which they
>gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here
>highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in
>vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new
>birth of freedom -- and that government of the people,
>by the people, for the people, shall not perish from
>the earth.
>
>A Lincoln
>
>Brad Haslett
>"CoraShen"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>
>
>>How many people on this list under the age of 40
>>know what Memorial Day
>>originally memorialized without looking it up?
>>
>>How many under 50?
>>
>>How many under 60?
>>
>>I would expect some of those over 60 to know the
>>answer without peeking.
>>
>>If you don't know, look it up.  Most of you will be
>>quite surprised.
>>
>>Bill Effros
>>
>>brad haslett wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of
>>>
>>>
>>things.
>>
>>
>>>The decayed and degraded state of moral and
>>>
>>>
>>patriotic
>>
>>
>>>feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is
>>>
>>>
>>much
>>
>>
>>>worse. The person who has nothing for which he is
>>>willing to fight, nothing which is more important
>>>
>>>
>>than
>>
>>
>>>his own personal safety, is a miserable creature
>>>
>>>
>>and
>>
>>
>>>has no chance of being free unless made and kept so
>>>
>>>
>>by
>>
>>
>>>the exertions of better men than himself."
>>>
>>>
>>>- John Stuart Mill
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Thank you Lt. Col. Esteban and all the other
>>>
>>>
>>veterans
>>
>>
>>>on the Rhodes 22 list.  Enjoy this weekend!  I'll
>>>raise a glass to your service on the "CoraShen"
>>>
>>>
>>today
>>
>>
>>>in your honor.
>>>
>>>Brad
>>>
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>>
>>
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>>>
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>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
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