[Rhodes22-list] (political) response to Bob Skinner's post

[Cheryl O'Grady]

Bob,
I found your post very interesting, particularly the conclusion that we need more troops to close the borders.

Believe it or not, because I never supported the invasion of Iraq, I think we need to send more troops in to get the job finished so we can get out and go home.  See, once they decided to do it, they should have done it right.  My heart goes out to the troops who feel we don't support them.  I do, and so do most who are against the war.  I don't advocate an immediate pullout, that would be wrong, for all the guys who died or were maimed during service there, and also for the civilians who would be left in the middle of a vicious civil war.  We broke it, we need to fix it.  We just had no business going in in the first place.

How do you suggest that people who are against the war should express their dissent and dissatisfaction in such a way as to honor the people doing the fighting while dumping porta-potti contents on the draft-dodgers who got us in there in the first place?  Oh, sorry, those were deferments, weren't they, and daddy-connected reserve jobs....not draft-dodging.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Skinner" <robert at squirrelhaven.com>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] stirring the hornet's nest.... (political) 	-JohnMurtha chimes in
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:09:14 -0500

> 
> Mike -
> 
> What do you think of this?  It showed up in my inbox, unsolicited,
> but may be valid.  I trust no source any more, except friends who
> are coming back, and each of them has a necessarily limited view
> of the conflict/situation.
> 
> How does it square with what you are hearing?
> 
> Do you have an opinion about whether we should pull out?
> Or should we send in enuf troops to seal borders?
> Do we have enuf force to seal borders?
> 
> /Bob
> 
> > The following is a report from a grunt in Iraq and is something that will
> > almost never be shown on the left leaning news networks.
> >
> > Subject: Report From Down Range
> >
> > This was sent to me a West Coast USAR CW3 who got it from a Semper Fi, UAL
> > retired, east coast type.
> >
> > Hello to all my fellow gunners, military buffs, veterans and interested
> > guys. A couple of weekends ago I got to spend time with my son Jordan, who
> > was on his first leave since returning from Iraq. He is well (a little
> > thin), and already bored. He will be returning to Iraq for a second tour in
> > early 06 and has already re-enlisted early for 4 more years. He loves the
> > Marine Corps and is actually looking forward to returning to Iraq.
> >
> > Jordan spent 7 months at Camp Blue Diamond in Ramadi. Aka: Fort Apache. He
> > saw and did a lot and the following is what he told me about weapons,
> > equipment, tactics and other miscellaneous info which may be of interest to
> > you.
> >
> > Nothing is by any means classified. No politics here, just a Marine with a
> > birds eye views opinions:
> >
> > 1) The M-16 rifle : Thumbs down. Chronic jamming problems with the talcum
> > powder like sand over there. The sand is everywhere. Jordan says you feel
> > filthy 2 minutes after coming out of the shower. The M-4 carbine version is
> > more popular because its lighter and shorter, but it has jamming problems
> > also. They like the ability to mount the various optical gunsights and
> > weapons lights on the picattiny rails, but the weapon itself is not great in
> > a desert environment.
> >
> > They all hate the 5.56mm (.223) round. Poor penetration on the cinderblock
> > structure common over there and even torso hits cant be reliably counted on
> > to put the enemy down. Fun fact: Random autopsies on dead insurgents shows a
> > high level of opiate use.
> >
> > 2) The M243 SAW (squad assault weapon): .223 cal. Drum fed light machine
> > gun. Big thumbs down. Universally considered a piece of shit. Chronic
> > jamming problems, most of which require partial disassembly. (that fun in
> > the middle of a firefight).
> >
> > 3) The M9 Beretta 9mm: Mixed bag. Good gun, performs well in desert
> > environment; but they all hate the 9mm cartridge. The use of handguns for
> > self-defense is actually fairly common. Same old story on the 9mm: Bad guys
> > hit multiple times and still in the fight.
> >
> > 4) Mossberg 12ga. Military shotgun: Works well, used frequently for clearing
> > houses to good effect.
> >
> > 5) The M240 Machine Gun: 7.62 Nato (.308) cal. belt fed machine gun,
> > developed to replace the old M-60 (what a beautiful weapon that was!!).
> > Thumbs up. Accurate, reliable, and the 7.62 round puts em down. Originally
> > developed as a vehicle mounted weapon, more and more are being dismounted
> > and taken into the field by infantry. The 7.62 round chews up the structure
> > over there.
> >
> > 6) The M2 .50 cal heavy machine gun: Thumbs way, way up. Ma deuce is still
> > worth her considerable weight in gold. The ultimate fight stopper, puts
> > their dicks in the dirt every time. The most coveted weapon in-theater.
> >
> > 7) The .45 pistol: Thumbs up. Still the best pistol round out there.
> > Everybody authorized to carry a sidearm is trying to get their hands on one.
> > With few exceptions, can reliably be expected to put em down with a torso
> > hit. The special ops guys (who are doing most of the pistol work) use the HK
> > military model and supposedly love it. The old government model .45s are
> > being re-issued en masse.
> >
> > 8) The M-14: Thumbs up. They are being re-issued in bulk, mostly in a
> > modified version to special ops guys. Modifications include lightweight
> > Kevlar stocks and low power red dot or ACOG sights. Very reliable in the
> > sandy environment, and they love the 7.62 round.
> >
> > 9) The Barrett .50 cal sniper rifle: Thumbs way up. Spectacular range and
> > accuracy and hits like a freight train. Used frequently to take out vehicle
> > suicide bombers ( we actually stop a lot of them) and barricaded enemy.
> > Definitely here to stay.
> >
> > 10) The M24 sniper rifle: Thumbs up. Mostly in .308 but some in 300 win mag.
> > Heavily modified Remington 700s. Great performance. Snipers have been used
> > heavily to great effect. Rumor has it that a marine sniper on his third tour
> > in Anbar province has actually exceeded Carlos Hathcocks record for
> > confirmed kills with OVER 100.
> >
> > 11) The new body armor: Thumbs up. Relatively light at approx. 6 lbs. and
> > can reliably be expected to soak up small shrapnel and even will stop an
> > AK-47 round. The bad news: Hot as shit to wear, almost unbearable in the
> > summer heat (which averages over 120 degrees). Also, the enemy now goes for
> > head shots whenever possible. All the bullshit about the old body armor
> > making our guys vulnerable to the IEDs was a non-starter. The IED explosions
> > are enormous and body armor doesn't make any difference at all in most
> > cases.
> >
> > 12) Night Vision and Infrared Equipment: Thumbs way up. Spectacular
> > performance. Our guys see in the dark and own the night, period. Very little
> > enemy action after evening prayers. More and more enemy being whacked at
> > night during movement by our hunter-killer teams. We've all seen the videos.
> >
> > 13) Lights: Thumbs up. Most of the weapon mounted and personal lights are
> > Surefires, and the troops love em. Invaluable for night urban operations.
> > Jordan carried a $34 Surefire G2 on a neck lanyard and loved it.
> >
> > I cant help but notice that most of the good fighting weapons and ordnance
> > are 50 or more years old!!!!!!!!! With all our technology, its the WWII and
> > Vietnam era weapons that everybody wants!!!! The infantry fighting is
> > frequent, up close and brutal. No quarter is given or shown.
> >
> > Bad guy weapons:
> >
> > 1) Mostly AK47s . The entire country is an arsenal. Works better in the
> > desert than the M16 and the .308 Russian round kills reliably. PKM belt fed
> > light machine guns are also common and effective. Luckily, the enemy mostly
> > shoots like shit. Undisciplined spray and pray type fire. However, they are
> > seeing more and more precision weapons, especially sniper rifles. (Iran,
> > again) Fun fact: Captured enemy have apparently marveled at the marksmanship
> > of our guys and how hard they fight. They are apparently told in Jihad
> > school that the Americans rely solely on technology, and can be easily
> > beaten in close quarters combat for their lack of toughness. Lets just say
> > they know better now.
> >
> > 2) The RPG: Probably the infantry weapon most feared by our guys. Simple,
> > reliable and as common as dogshit. The enemy responded to our up-armored
> > humvees by aiming at the windshields, often at point blank range. Still
> > killing a lot of our guys.
> >
> > 3) The IED: The biggest killer of all. Can be anything from old Soviet
> > anti-armor mines to jury rigged artillery shells. A lot found in
> > Jordansarea were in abandoned cars. The enemy would take 2 or 3 155mm
> > artillery
> > shells and wire them together. Most were detonated by cell phone, and the
> > explosions are enormous. You're not safe in any vehicle, even an M1 tank.
> > Driving is by far the most dangerous thing our guys do over there. Lately,
> > they are much more sophisticated shape charges (Iranian) specifically
> > designed to penetrate armor.
> >
> > Fact: Most of the ready made IEDs are supplied by Iran, who is also
> > providing terrorists (Hezbollah types) to train the insurgents in their use
> > and tactics. Thats why the attacks have been so deadly lately. Their
> > concealment methods are ingenious, the latest being shape charges in
> > Styrofoam containers spray painted to look like the cinderblocks that litter
> > all Iraqi roads. We find about 40% before they detonate, and the bomb
> > disposal guys are unsung heroes of this war.
> >
> > 4) Mortars and rockets: Very prevalent. The soviet era 122mm rockets (with
> > an 18km range) are becoming more prevalent. One of Jordans NCOs lost a leg
> > to one. These weapons cause a lot of damage inside the wire. Jordans base
> > was hit almost daily his entire time there by mortar and rocket fire, often
> > at night to disrupt sleep patterns and cause fatigue (It did). More of a
> > psychological weapon than anything else. The enemy mortar teams would jump
> > out of vehicles, fire a few rounds, and then haul ass in a matter of
> > seconds.
> >
> > 5) Bad guy technology: Simple yet effective. Most communication is by cell
> > and satellite phones, and also by email on laptops. They use handheld GPS
> > units for navigation and Google earth for overhead views of our positions.
> > Their weapons are good, if not fancy, and prevalent. Their explosives and
> > bomb technology is TOP OF THE LINE. Night vision is rare. They are very
> > careless with their equipment and the captured GPS units and laptops are
> > treasure troves of Intel when captured.
> >
> > Who are the bad guys?:
> >
> > Most of the carnage is caused by the Zarqawi Al Qaeda group. They operate
> > mostly in Anbar province (Fallujah and Ramadi). These are mostly foreigners,
> > non-Iraqi Sunni Arab Jihadists from all over the Muslim world (and Europe).
> > Most enter Iraq through Syria (with, of course, the knowledge and complicity
> > of the Syrian govt.) , and then travel down the at line which is the trail
> > of towns along the Euphrates River that weve been hitting hard for the last
> > few months. Some are virtually untrained young Jihadists that often end up
> > as suicide bombers or in sacrifice squads. Most, however, are hard core
> > terrorists from all the usual suspects (Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas etc.)
> > These are the guys running around murdering civilians en masse and cutting
> > heads off. The Chechens (many of whom are Caucasian), are supposedly the
> > most ruthless and the best fighters. (they have been fighting the Russians
> > for years). In the Baghdad area and south, most of the insurgents are
> > Iranian inspired (and led) Iraqi Shiites. The Iranian Shiia have been very
> > adept at infiltrating the Iraqi local govt., the police forces and the Army.
> > The have had a massive spy and agitator network there since the Iran-Iraq
> > war in the early 80s. Most of the Saddam loyalists were killed, captured or
> > gave up long ago.
> >
> > Bad Guy Tactics:
> >
> > When they are engaged on an infantry level they get their asses kicked every
> > time. Brave, but stupid. Suicidal Banzai-type charges were very common
> > earlier in the war and still occur. They will literally sacrifice 8-10 man
> > teams in suicide squads by sending them screaming and firing Aks and RPGs
> > directly at our bases just to probe the defenses. They get mowed down like
> > grass every time. (see the M2 and M240 above). Jordans base was hit like
> > this often. When engaged, they have a tendency to flee to the same building,
> > probably for what they think will be a glorious last stand. Instead, we call
> > in air and thats the end of that more often than not. These hole-ups are
> > referred to as Alpha Whiskey Romeos (Allahs Waiting Room). We have the laser
> > guided ground-air thing down to a science. The fast movers, mostly Marine
> > F-18s, are taking an ever increasing toll on the enemy. When caught out in
> > the open, the helicopter gunships and AC-130 Spectre gunships cut them to
> > ribbons with cannon and rocket fire, especially at night. Interestingly,
> > artillery is hardly used at all.
> >
> > Fun fact:
> >
> > The enemy death toll is supposedly between 45-50 thousand. That is why were
> > seeing less and less infantry attacks and more IED, suicide bomber shit. The
> > new strategy is simple: attrition.
> >
> > The insurgent tactic most frustrating is their use of civilian
> > non-combatants as cover. They know we do all we can to avoid civilian
> > casualties and therefore schools, hospitals and (especially) Mosques are
> > locations where they meet, stage for attacks, cache weapons and ammo and
> > flee to when engaged. They have absolutely no regard whatsoever for civilian
> > casualties. They will terrorize locals and murder without hesitation anyone
> > believed to be sympathetic to the Americans or the new Iraqi govt.
> > Kidnapping of family members (especially children) is common to influence
> > people they are trying to influence but cant reach, such as local govt.
> > officials, clerics, tribal leaders, etc.).
> >
> > The first thing our guys are told is don't get captured. They know that if
> > captured they will be tortured and beheaded on the internet. Zarqawi openly
> > offers bounties for anyone who brings him a live American serviceman. This
> > motivates the criminal element who otherwise don't give a shit about the
> > war. A lot of the beheading victims were actually kidnapped by common
> > criminals and sold to Zarqawi. As such, for our guys, every fight is to the
> > death. Surrender is not an option.
> >
> > The Iraqis are a mixed bag. Some fight well, others aren't worth a shit.
> > Most do okay with American support. Finding leaders is hard, but they are
> > getting better. It is widely viewed that Zarqawis use of suicide bombers, en
> > masse, against the civilian population was a serious tactical mistake. Many
> > Iraqis were galvanized and the caliber of recruits in the Army and the
> > police forces went up, along with their motivation. It also led to an
> > exponential increase in good intel because the Iraqis are sick of the
> > insurgent attacks against civilians.
> >
> > The Kurds are solidly pro-American and fearless fighters.
> >
> > According to Jordan, morale among our guys is very high. They not only
> > believe they are winning, but that they are winning decisively. They are
> > stunned and dismayed by what they see in the American press, whom they
> > almost universally view as against them. The embedded reporters are despised
> > and distrusted. They are inflicting casualties at a rate of 20-1 and then
> > see shit like Are we losing in Iraq on TV and the print media. For the most
> > part, they are satisfied with their equipment, food and leadership. Bottom
> > line though, and they all say this, there are not enough guys there to drive
> > the final stake through the heart of the insurgency, primarily because there
> > aren't enough troops in-theater to shut down the borders with Iran and
> > Syria. The Iranians and the Syrians just cant stand the thought of
> > Iraqbeing an American ally (with, of course, permanent US bases
> > there).
> >
> > Anyway guys, thats it, hope you found it interesting, I sure did.
> 
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"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."  Edmund Burke, Irish philosopher