[Rhodes22-list] Ron Lipton's point?

Tue Sep 6 14:57:25 EDT 2005

No, Ron,

I think you have missed Ed's point.

As I get it, Ed thinks a blow job is an impeachable offense, whereas an 
administration staffed by incompetents and dissemblers is what this 
country really needs.

The sports metaphor was just a topical throw-away line.

Bill Effros

Ronald Lipton wrote:

> Ed,
>
>    Your point is that because Heisman trophy winners rarely win the
> Super Bowl we should entrust the lives of thousands of our fellow 
> citizens to
> someone with no particular job qualifications?  Some people rise to the
> occasion, but I would not like my local tailor doing heart surgery hoping
> that he will grow into the job. It is well proven that minimal job 
> qualifications
> are required for our presidents.
>
> Ron
> On Sep 6, 2005, at 10:59 AM, ed kroposki wrote:
>
>> Ron,
>>     I agree that Brown's head ought to roll, however, your analogy as to
>> his prior job before entering public service is on shaky ground.  One 
>> of my
>> favorite politicians was a tailor in Missouri before elected to the 
>> U. S.
>> Senate.  I think that he grew up to the job.  This guy did not. You 
>> can not
>> predict personal success with accuracy.
>>     He failed now should be the reason for his departure.  His prior
>> full time employment may or may not be indicative of how he will 
>> perform in
>> a high stress situation.  You should ask yourself how many Heisman 
>> Trophy
>> winners also win the Super Bowl?  Then ask how many quarterbacks that 
>> you
>> never heard of in college do win?
>>     
>> Ed K
>> Greenville, SC, USA
>> Addendum:  "The art of leadership uses identical methods in many 
>> kinds of
>> situations."  Ordway Tead, business writher circa 1936
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Ronald Lipton
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 11:22 AM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rummies observation
>>
>> Brad,
>>
>>> investigated and will be.  What did the head of FEMA
>>> do before that job?  I forget, I think he was some
>>> political hack, kinda like Truman.
>>
>>
>> The answer:
>>  "Before joining the Bush administration in 2001, Brown spent 11 
>> years as
>> the
>> commissioner of judges and stewards for the International Arabian Horse
>> Association, a breeders' and horse-show organization based in Colorado"
>> http://business.bostonherald.com/businessNews/view.bg?articleid=100857
>>
>> Have fun at MCPP - lots of problems for you guys to solve.
>>
>> Ron
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "brad haslett" <flybrad at yahoo.com>
>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 9:42 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rummies observation
>>
>>
>>> Ron,
>>>
>>> I haven't absolved anybody of anything.  Iraq and
>>> Katrina are two separate issues, however, the same
>>> people who complain about ursurping the power of the
>>> dictator in Iraq are now complaining that the POTUS
>>> didn't ursurp power from the mayor of NO and the
>>> Governor of LA.  Maybe W learned his "Pottery Barn"
>>> lesson in Iraq and didn't want to make the same
>>> mistake twice.  What some people seem to be saying is
>>> that the President should have immediately flown to
>>> NO, stood on the dike with shovel in hand, had his
>>> Cabinet take over the state and local governments, and
>>> personally command the evacuation of the city.  He DID
>>> call the Governor and "twist her arm" to do just that,
>>> and she acknowledged that in the evacuation press
>>> conference with the mayor at her side.  Did FEMA
>>> underperform?  Probably, no matter how well some
>>> person or institution performs, they can always do
>>> better.  Was FEMA a complete failure?  They did a
>>> pretty good job in Florida last year, perhaps less
>>> than adequate this year.  This all deserves to be
>>> investigated and will be.  What did the head of FEMA
>>> do before that job?  I forget, I think he was some
>>> political hack, kinda like Truman.
>>>
>>> Speaking of performing, I have to jump in the
>>> simulator for training for my new job.  Afterwords I'm
>>> going to the Memphis Center for Peace and Prosperity
>>> for some scotch, I mean meetings.  They always have an
>>> answer.  I'll let you know this evening.
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>> --- Ronald Lipton <rlipton at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Brad,
>>>>
>>>>    I can't believe thast you are willing to absolve
>>>> FEMA and
>>>> the Federal government for this disaster.  It was
>>>> clearing beyond
>>>> the scope of any local abilities.  There was more
>>>> than adequate
>>>> warning of the hurricane, and the were multiple
>>>> statments about
>>>> resources being prepositioned to be available
>>>> immediatlely after
>>>> landfall.  The chaos was obvious. Statements by
>>>> Chertoff and
>>>> Brown were immediately contradicted by facts on the
>>>> ground.
>>>> Part of this may be the belief in the the government
>>>> that spin
>>>> is everything - if you spin right it doesn't matter
>>>> what you do.
>>>>
>>>> It seems to me that there is plenty of blame to go
>>>> around, local,
>>>> state, and national.  But I am hoping that people
>>>> start thinking
>>>> about real priorities - do we want to continue
>>>> spending ~100 billion\
>>>> to create the most fertile breeding ground for
>>>> terrorists in the
>>>> world in Iraq.  Is the environment important? Is is
>>>> worth ~20 billion
>>>> to restore the protective wetlands?  Global warming
>>>> is real. Do we have
>>>> a policy?  What are the effects? Are we happy with
>>>> the loss of
>>>> manufacting in the US?  What does it really mean to
>>>> the economy and
>>>> the workforce?
>>>>
>>>> Whoops - I am getting off subject.  But a final quiz
>>>> question - what
>>>> was the head of FEMA's previous job?
>>>>
>>>> Ron
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "brad haslett" <flybrad at yahoo.com>
>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
>>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 7:44 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rummies observation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Wally,
>>>>>
>>>>> It will be years before NO recovers from this, the
>>>>> nation as well, and there will be lots of failing
>>>>> grades passed around when all the investigations
>>>>
>>>> are
>>>>
>>>>> over.  In the meantime, a lot of people are still
>>>>> suffering and still need our help, and money, or
>>>>
>>>> both.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The last revision of a bad plan from the city of
>>>>
>>>> NO
>>>>
>>>>> was to make and distribute DVD's before this years
>>>>> hurricane season, educating the citizens that in
>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> event of a major hurricane, "you are on your own".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The city plan also included using the city and
>>>>
>>>> school
>>>>
>>>>> system bus fleet for evacuation but even that
>>>>
>>>> wasn't
>>>>
>>>>> implemented.
>>>>>
>>>>> As we speak, the National Guard is still under
>>>>
>>>> command
>>>>
>>>>> of the LA governor.  If regular military units
>>>>> step-in, they can engage in relief efforts only,
>>>>
>>>> not
>>>>
>>>>> law enforcement under the Posse Comitatus Act.
>>>>
>>>> Every
>>>>
>>>>> FEMA engagement plan assumes that the local
>>>>> authorities will control the first 72 hours.  It
>>>>
>>>> is
>>>>
>>>>> painfully clear that NO either could not or would
>>>>
>>>> not
>>>>
>>>>> do that.  "Cowboy" Bush could have stepped up to
>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> plate and taken over the whole operation early-on
>>>>> through his emergency powers, something no
>>>>
>>>> President
>>>>
>>>>> has done since Reconstruction.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unless we are willing to re-write the constitution
>>>>> dividing the separations of local/state/federal
>>>>
>>>> power,
>>>>
>>>>> we have to assume that each level of government
>>>>
>>>> will
>>>>
>>>>> do their part at the appropriate time.  If they
>>>>
>>>> can't
>>>>
>>>>> or won't, these are the results we get.
>>>>
>>>> Tragically
>>>>
>>>>> for the citizens of NO, a lot of elected officials
>>>>> failed to do their part.
>>>>>
>>>>> The lesson that should be burning in all our
>>>>
>>>> 'noggins'
>>>>
>>>>> as we discuss these issues is this:  Take
>>>>> responsibility for you and your family's welfare.
>>>>
>>>> Be
>>>>
>>>>> a Boy Scout - be prepared.
>>>>>
>>>>> Brad
>>>>>
>>>>> --- Wally Buck <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> As always it is hard to figure out the truth. One
>>>>>> thing for sure I have
>>>>>> never seen anything like this. It does seems that
>>>>>> many mistakes were made by
>>>>>> local, State and Federal officials. You can also
>>>>>> second guess anyone who had
>>>>>> the means to leave but stayed. I can't see murder
>>>>>> charges for officials but
>>>>>> it does seem that Home Land Security running FEMA
>>>>>
>>>> is
>>>>
>>>>>> a cluster f**k.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did FEMA really send water back? Was the Guard
>>>>>> authorization form just
>>>>>> haning out of a fax machine waiting a signature
>>>>>
>>>> or
>>>>
>>>>>> what? I am not a big Bush
>>>>>> fan but it is hard for me to believe that the
>>>>>
>>>> whole
>>>>
>>>>>> delay was because Bush
>>>>>> was chopping wood. Local officials let the people
>>>>>> down years ago by not
>>>>>> developing a solid plan. It cost dearly,
>>>>>
>>>> hopefully
>>>>
>>>>>> other areas learn from
>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A nice three days sailing! What a weekend.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wally
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rummies observation
>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 12:28:38 -0400
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nice try, Ed, but it won't wash.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1/2 the Louisiana National Guard was in
>>>>>>
>>>> Iraq--along
>>>>
>>>>>> with all of their meals
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ready to eat, and most of their equipment.  (We
>>>>>>
>>>>>> have now asked your friends
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> in France to send us food and water trucks.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Walmart immediately sent
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> water, but FEMA sent it back saying New Orleans
>>>>>>
>>>>>> didn't need it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Director of Homeland Security and the Head
>>>>>>
>>>> of
>>>>
>>>>>> FEMA both said they
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> didn't even know there were 15,000 people
>>>>>>
>>>> totally
>>>>
>>>>>> at the mercy of roving
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> gangs within the New Orleans Convention Center
>>>>>>
>>>> at a
>>>>
>>>>>> time when news
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> organizations were reporting about it on
>>>>>>
>>>> national
>>>>
>>>>>> television from the site.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Governor and Mayor immediately called other
>>>>>>
>>>>>> states for help, and the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> other Governors were ready to send, but W. was
>>>>>>
>>>>>> clearing brush in Texas,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Condi was shopping in NYC, -- (August is a
>>>>>>
>>>> vacation
>>>>
>>>>>> month) -- and there was
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> no one in DC to authorize the transfer of
>>>>>>
>>>> National
>>>>
>>>>>> Guard troops.  (You see,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the states can't just send their armed militias
>>>>>>
>>>>>> into other states, they've
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> got to get authorization from the Federal
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Government--which didn't happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And why should it?  "I don't think anyone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> anticipated the breach of the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> levees" -- George W. Bush, Good Morning America,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> September 1, 2005.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> === message truncated ===
>>>
>>>
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