[Rhodes22-list] anchoring obsession
Bill Effros
bill at effros.com
Sat Jan 14 16:11:31 EST 2006
Peter,
Since we have both sailed down the East River (did you actually sail or
did you motor? -- in an R-22 or a different boat?) I will confine my
remarks to that body of water--as soon as I can get back to it--not
now. I assume you were traveling in the direction of the flow?
Bill Effros
Peter Thorn wrote:
>Bill,
>
>Two years ago, sailing down the East River, the current was about that. In
>Beaufort, NC (where Bill W anchored) there can be some pretty strong
>currents as the Altlantic makes it's way through the inlets during tidal
>changes. We're planning a Cape Lokout trip later, so it's possible. I don't
>think anchoring in a 5 knot current is likely, but if it can be done I sure
>would like to know how.
>
>PT
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 2:37 PM
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring obsession
>
>
>
>
>>Peter,
>>
>>I'm back. Just like you, more interested in this than in what I'm
>>supposed to be doing.
>>
>>I'm going to break my replies to your comments into subject headings so
>>anyone trying to follow doesn't have to read the whole thing.
>>
>>Do you actually sail in waters where there is a 5 kt. current? Have you
>>ever sailed in a 5 kt. current? Where?
>>
>>Bill Effros
>>
>>
>>
>>Peter Thorn wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hi Mary Lou,
>>>
>>>It's quite windy and blowing in cold here and could get as low as 28
>>>tonight! My skipper cancelled the NYRA winter series racing at
>>>
>>>
>Blackbeard
>
>
>>>SC on the Neuse River, so I spent most of the morning messing around with
>>>that Anchor Catenary program Ron attached.
>>>
>>>Using my imagined problem of being stuck out in the Pamlico, out of sight
>>>
>>>
>of
>
>
>>>land, in 20' of water over a muck bottom, using Raven's storm anchor
>>>
>>>
>(FX11,
>
>
>>>16' chain, 150' 3/8" three stand nylon all out), and setting the Kellet
>>>
>>>
>at
>
>
>>>75', here are the results:
>>>
>>> Kellet = 0# = 95.2#
>>> Kellet = 10 = 131.5
>>> Kellet = 20 = 168.0
>>>
>>>Now it's just a matter of trying to figure out what these results
>>>
>>>
>actually
>
>
>>>mean. I'm a builder, not a genius. My guess is that, with the catenary
>>>shape described by the graph shown on the catenary analyzer program,
>>>
>>>
>those
>
>
>>>are the various horizontal thrust forces holding each particular catenary
>>>profile shape in equilibrium against an infinitely strong anchor. So, a
>>>
>>>
>10#
>
>
>>>Kellet provides a 38% increase and a 20# Kellet provides a 76% increase
>>>
>>>
>in
>
>
>>>the force needed to hold each's catenary shape versus no Kellet at all.
>>>
>>>
>If
>
>
>>>my guess is right, then a Kellet does help quite a bit, adding
>>>
>>>
>significantly
>
>
>>>to the "shock absorber effect" Rik wrote about.
>>>
>>>Yes, we use a 10# steel mushroom anchor on 3/8 nylon as a lunch hook.
>>>
>>>
>Works
>
>
>>>well in any mud bottom and doesn't seem to snag on the stumps in Kerr
>>>
>>>
>Lake
>
>
>>>the Army Corp of Engineers forgot to grub out before they filled the lake
>>>
>>>
>in
>
>
>>>the '60s.
>>>
>>>So... I'm thinking about modifying the 10# mushroom anchor with another
>>>quick link (through its nylon rode eye) and a big S hook to ride down the
>>>storm anchor rode as a make-shift Kellet. This capital investment might
>>>
>>>
>be
>
>
>>>a whopping $5, so there's not much to loose by trying. A possible
>>>enhancement is to melt down some lead tire weights on a Coleman stove
>>>outside and pour 2 or 3 cups of hot lead weight into the mushroom bell.
>>>Maybe that's too obsessive-- even for me.
>>>
>>>The big worry is getting caught halfway to Ocracoke in a summer storm.
>>>
>>>
>Out
>
>
>>>in the middle you lose sight of land for about an hour and there's no
>>>
>>>
>place
>
>
>>>to hide. The wind driven waves are short and square. They come up fast,
>>>
>>>
>so
>
>
>>>having a method ready to keep the bow to the wind would be very good
>>>
>>>
>indeed.
>
>
>>>That Boy Scout training never goes away.
>>>
>>>Late last October at Silver Lake on Ocracoke at 5:30am a local storm hit
>>>
>>>
>our
>
>
>>>trailer sailor group. 55 Knot winds were reported on WX. Raven, with
>>>
>>>
>the
>
>
>>>pop top cover up, heeled 30 degrees against her docklines. It was gone
>>>
>>>
>in
>
>
>>>30 minutes, but imagine being out in that!
>>>
>>>PT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Mary Lou Troy" <mltroy at verizon.net>
>>>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 11:41 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring obsession
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Peter,
>>>>My purely theoretical take on this - having never used a kellet, is that
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>it
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>might help - particularly if the winds were not very steady or if there
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>was
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>wave action.
>>>>
>>>>Have you used the mushroom much as a lunch hook?
>>>>
>>>>Mary Lou
>>>>1991 R22 Fretless
>>>>Ft. Washington, PA / Swan Creek, MD
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>At 04:29 PM 1/13/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>GlacierRon, Dave, Bill or anybody:
>>>>>
>>>>>You have me thinking about anchors and not getting any work done :)
>>>>>
>>>>>Suppose I'm out in the Pamlico Sound, with it's mucky bottom in 20' of
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>water
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>and a squall comes up. Would it help to use the lunch hook, a 10#
>>>>>
>>>>>
>steel
>
>
>>>>>mushroom anchor with a 3/8" nylon rode, as a Kellet shackled to the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>storm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>anchor rode? The storm anchor is FX11 Fortress with 16' of 1/4" proof
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>coil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>chain plus 3/8" three strand nylon rode? Or, could it just make things
>>>>>worse?
>>>>>
>>>>>Any thoughts welcome.
>>>>>
>>>>>PT
>>>>>
>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
>>
>
>__________________________________________________
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>
>
>
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