[Rhodes22-list] WTF? (response to Hank and Tootle)

TN Rhodey tnrhodey at hotmail.com
Sat May 20 11:20:50 EDT 2006 

Brad,


LOL your post/rant has me rolling my eyes. Yes it easy for YOU to second 
guess now that the facts are in. Many of us were second (first guessing?) 
guessing prior to the attack. Give us some credit. And the fact that one 
does not agree with you does not make then a pacifist or isolationist. My my 
your mind is so closed you can't even stay on topic. Some of us felt we 
should have finished in Afghanstan. Does that make me a pacifist?

This thread is not about Hillary and post war Iraq. Sometimes you go along 
way to point out the obvious but don't stay focused on the actual issue. Yes 
these problems existed prior to Bush. Yes both the left and right made some 
mistakes.  Yes future administrations will have to deal with Middle East 
tensions. Duh! I have never said other wise. This thread is not about 
immediate withdrawal. I never mentioned withdrawal. Stay focused on what I 
am saying....we should not have attacked Iraq when we did. I said it then 
and I am saying it now. This is not hind sight! Now if you are using 
hindsight to change your mind that is a different story.

Also I read much of the report....it does say that some Genrals "thought" 
they had WMD. Your report also points out the massive campaign of 
misinformation and secrecy around WMD.The article basically said that Saddam 
ran a huge marketing campaign to overstate his WMD capabilities. He did this 
because he thought we were weak. According to your report he even had his 
military leaders watch Black Hawk Down to show them how easy it would be to 
defeat us! If people didn't get in step with Saddams campaign they were 
eliminated. If there were remaining WMDs they were not a threat to our 
National Security.

Now if you want to change the subject.....what do we do now that we have 
created this mess? This is a different question with no easy answers. 
However history provides some insight. You can draw your own conclusions but 
you must first remove your rose colored glasses. A casual review of the 
history of the Middle East shows our chances for success are slim.

Wally

>From: brad haslett <flybrad at yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] WTF? (response to Hank and Tootle)
>Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 04:53:12 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Wally,
>
>OK, here's a quick shot to clarify things before the
>boys put my arse on a machine.  If you read through
>the report, Saddam's generals thought they had WMD.
>They had WMDs at one time, they used WMDs. They wanted
>more. We still don't know where they went.  Saddam
>sponsored terrorism all over the Middle East.  Clinton
>thought he should be taken out.  So did Gore, so did
>Kerry.  It is easy to second guess the decision to go
>to war after the fact, but post 9/11, given the
>intelligence we had, it was a tough call (unless
>you're a pacifist or an isolationist).  We went, we're
>there.  These calls for an early withdrawal are
>nonsense.  Do you know why the loss of our kids to
>IEDs has gone up?  The insurgents are getting C4 from
>Iran that is seven times more powerful. The argument
>that we wouldn't have these problems had we not gone
>there doesn't fly with me.  Why fight the war in
>Europe when it was Japan that attacked us?   This is a
>war like no other, the front is hard to define and
>constantly shifting. IF Iraq can become a stable
>nation, it will shift the whole Middle East.  We've
>had enough "meet and greets" in the Rose Garden.  The
>world is too small and the Middle East too important
>to ignore. Whether Iraq was the best move won't be
>determined for a long time.  NEWS FLASH!  Bush will be
>gone soon.  Hillary, or whoever, will face the same
>problems.  The folks who want to take us back to the
>seventh century don't give a shit who's next.  The
>problem remains the same. As to the folks who are in
>Iraq now, they deserve our support.  The re-inlistment
>rate and requests for redeployment to Iraq is
>incredible.  They believe in what they are doing.  You
>have to read the soldiers blogs to get that story
>though, it won't sell soap for the MSM.
>
>Brad
>
>--- TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Brad,
> >
> > I am not sure I follow what you are saying. Perhaps
> > someone else posted on
> > military families.
> >
> > Many of us do try to remove emotion and look at the
> > facts.  It reallky isn't
> > THAT hard. One first has to have an open mind. Again
> > your link did not
> > reveal anything that would change my mind. It seemed
> > to support what i said.
> > We rushed into this on bad information. I have said
> > this from day one. Am I
> > missing something?
> >
> > Your ask for forgiveness rather than permission
> > concept is a pretty low
> > standard. I think we should aim a little higher.
> >
> > Wally
> >
> >
> > >From: brad haslett <flybrad at yahoo.com>
> > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] WTF? (response to Hank
> > and Tootle)
> > >Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 19:54:11 -0700 (PDT)
> > >
> > >Wally,
> > >
> > >My attitude is "better to ask forgiveness than
> > >permission" when it comes to national security. No
> > one
> > >is going to give up their political position based
> > >only the facts; mostly it is emotion.  I just spent
> > >the evening celebrating my oldest son's 24th
> > birthday
> > >on the  MS Gulf coast.  I'm not going to second
> > guess
> > >anyone's influence on their child not to go to THE
> > >GULF.  My graditude goes to those kids who did, and
> > >especially to those parents whose kids didn't come
> > >back.
> > >
> > >Brad
> > >
> > >
> > >--- TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Brad,
> > > >
> > > > I skimmed through reading things here and there
> > but
> > > > didn't come across
> > > > anything that changes my mind. In fact I read
> > > > several things that confirmed
> > > > my way of thinking. Most interesting is the
> > coverage
> > > > of WMD. Looked to me
> > > > like they cited many sources showing that there
> > > > weren't any WMD left and we
> > > > bought into the boasts of Saddam.
> > > >
> > > > Wally
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: brad haslett <flybrad at yahoo.com>
> > > > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] WTF? (response to
> > Hank
> > > > and Tootle)
> > > > >Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 05:43:50 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > >
> > > > >Wally,
> > > > >
> > > > >Here is some "light" reading for you (230
> > pages).
> > > > >I've read some excerpts and analysis but
> > haven't
> > > > >digested the whole document.  Hope to get that
> > done
> > > > >this week if I can get away from the 'Tower of
> > > > Babel'.
> > > > >
> > > > >Brad
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >http://www.foreignaffairs.org/special/iraq/ipp.pdf
> > > > >
> > > > >--- TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I also saw (on TV) Colin Powell give a
> > > > powerpoint
> > > > > > presentaion to the UN
> > > > > > showing location of WMD. If it makes you
> > feel
> > > > any
> > > > > > better I blame congress
> > > > > > almost as much as Bush. Fiew had the
> > strength to
> > > > > > vote against the
> > > > > > resolution. Face it. we acted on
> > mis-information
> > > > and
> > > > > > made some bad
> > > > > > decisions. I don't understand why this is so
> > > > hard
> > > > > > for people to see.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I really like my local Congressman Jim
> > Duncan.
> > > > He is
> > > > > > one of the few who
> > > > > > voted against the resolution and he is a
> > > > republican.
> > > > > > There was no reason to
> > > > > > attack Iraq when we did. The borders were
> > locked
> > > > > > down about as well as you
> > > > > > can lock down a border. Heck we can't even
> > > > control
> > > > > > our border. We also
> > > > > > controlled the airways. We had not yet
> > finished
> > > > in
> > > > > > Afghanastan. We should
> > > > > > have confirmed all of our information first.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Maybe I should remove logic from my thought
> > > > process
> > > > > > and just follow party
> > > > > > line.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wally
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: "Herb Parsons"
> > <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> > > > > > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > > > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > >To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] WTF? (response
> > to
> > > > Hank
> > > > > > and Tootle)
> > > > > > >Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 22:25:53 -0500
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >The reasons "Bush and his cronies" (I
> > assume,
> > > > that
> > > > > > by 'Bush and his
> > > > > > >cronies', you are referring to the US
> > Congress,
> > > > > > since they are the body
> > > > > > >that authorized and voted for the
> > resolution)
> > > > are
> > > > > > clearly laid out in the
> > > > > > >resolution authorizing the action. You HAVE
> > > > read
> > > > > > it, haven't you?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Herb Parsons
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >S/V O'Jure
> > > > > > >1976 O'Day 25
> > > > > > >Lake Grapevine, N TX
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >S/V Reve de Papa
> > > > > > >1971 Coronado 35
> > > > > > >Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >>> saroj at pathfind.net 5/14/2006 12:29:40
> > pm
> > > > >>>
> > > > > > >To Hank:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Exactly what do you believe WAS the reason
> > Bush
> > > > and
> > > > > > his cronies decided to
> > > > > > >go to war in Iraq?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >The stated reason was that Iraq harbored Al
> > > > Qaeda
> > > > > > terrorists and Sadaam was
> > > > > > >a recalcitrant tyrant and had WMD which he
> > > > planned
> > > > > > to use against us.  That
> > > > > > >he was a tyrant there is no doubt.  Is it
> > the
> > > > job
> > > > > > of the U.S.A. to
> > > > > > >eliminate
> > > > > > >all tyrants from this world? There are
> > plenty
> >
>=== message truncated ===
>
>
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