[Rhodes22-list] Oh My God!
Herb Parsons
hparsons at parsonsys.com
Sun Nov 23 21:14:52 EST 2008
Rummy, I think you may have just defined the problem with a lot of
people on the list, which is, of course, simply a microcosm of the world
in general.
I view eduction differently. Every day, you get another chance at it.
R22RumRunner at aol.com wrote:
> Brad,
> Funny thing about education, you only get one shot at it.
>
> Rummy
>
>
> In a message dated 11/23/2008 8:42:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> flybrad at gmail.com writes:
>
> Herb,
>
> Speaking from my own experience, there are good public schools and bad
> ones. I was fortunate to go to a good one, well funded (thank you
> Chicago for sending your tax dollars down state), with lot's of
> parental involvement (I've already told the story here about my dad
> making asses out of the school board in public). When my oldest was
> ready to start school in Little Rock it was a no brainer. He went to
> private schools from K-12. My second went to both. Cora is now in
> public school and we couldn't be happier, so far. My bitch with the
> public school system all along is why is the Federal 'gubment'
> involved for any reason?
>
> Obama has mouthed lot's of answers about education and spent lot's of
> other folks money on experiments, but isn't willing to put at risk his
> own daughters (article attached). I admire he and Michelle for using
> their resources to their children's best advantage. He obviously
> feels the same way I do about education.
>
> Brad
>
> -------------------
>
> The Obamas Walk Away from Public Schools
>
> Posted By Andrew J. Coulson On November 21, 2008 @ 9:06 pm In
> Education and Child Policy | Comments Disabled
>
> A few months ago, Barack Obama told a gathering of the American
> Federation of Teachers that he opposes private school choice programs,
> adding: "We need to focus on fixing and improving our public schools;
> [1] not throwing our hands up and walking away from them."
>
> It's not clear whether or not the president-elect will be able to fix
> our public schools, and I don't know if he's thrown up his hands, but
> he and his two daughters have just walked away from the public
> schools. Again. When they move from Chicago to D.C., Malia and Sasha
> Obama will be moving from the prestigious private Lab School [2] to
> the prestigious private Sidwell Friends school — Chelsea Clinton's old
> stomping ground.
>
> Not that there's anything wrong with that. In fact, it's wonderful
> that the Obamas had such a broad range of public and private school
> choices available to them. What's puzzling is that the president-elect
> opposes programs that would bring that same easy choice of schools
> within reach of families who lack his personal wealth. By his actions,
> Senator Obama is demonstrating that he is not willing to wait for his
> own policy prescriptions to "fix and improve" public schools, but he
> expects folks with less ample bank accounts to patiently await his
> hoped-for change.
>
> And while many reports will no doubt trumpet the $25,000+ tuition at
> Sidwell Friends, implying that this is extravagantly beyond what is
> spent in D.C. public schools, they will be mistaken. As I wrote in the
> [3] Washington Post and [4] on this blog, D.C. public schools also
> spent about $25,000 per child in the 2007-08 school year.
>
> It's not that president-elect Obama is against spending a lot of money
> on other people's kids — he's just against letting their parents
> choose where that money is spent.
>
> Article printed from Cato @ Liberty: http://www.cato-at-liberty.org
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 6:46 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>
>> Interesting. Please do note, MY position is that both the educational
>> community (primarily the administrative, but the teachers themselves are
>> also part of the problem), and the parents share fault in the current
>> situation. Is it really your position that the educational community
>> shares no blame in this mess?
>>
>> elle wrote:
>>
>>> Herb,
>>>
>>> Yep, we are on opposite sides this time...'seeing' the school system from
>>>
> whatever angles and being in the employ for two doesn't hold a candle to
> every day for 33 years, in three different levels (elementary, jr high (I
> high-tailed it out of there to the high school when they went to the
> middle-school-hormone-hell model) & high school.
>
>>> Ya gotta have the shoes on in order to walk that mile...
>>>
>>> elle
>>>
>>>
>>> We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our sails.
>>>
>>> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Sun, 11/23/08, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Oh My God!
>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 6:31 PM
>>>> Well elle, we're going to have to disagree on this one.
>>>> I pay school
>>>> taxes, thus I DO have a "dog in this hunt". I
>>>> also had 4 children in
>>>> various public and private schools over the years, and I
>>>> did in fact
>>>> spend two years in the employ of a local school district.
>>>> I've seen the
>>>> system from just about every angle possible.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> elle wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, Herb. You know not of which you speak. In fact,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> you acknowledge it at the beginning when you
>>>> said,"Actually, I think ..."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> You may analyze,think, suppose and assume, burt unless
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> you spent the years from 1969-2002 in an elementary, junior
>>>> high and high school classroom, with upwards of 120 vastly
>>>> differing 'entitled' students of all colors,
>>>> backgrounds, attitudes, and watched the society change from
>>>> the kid needing correction (being able to paddle (which was
>>>> allowed) to the teacher needs correction ("you
>>>> embarrassed my child when he had no homework....") you
>>>> really have no dog in this hunt.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> elle
>>>>>
>>>>> BYW....FYI I'm at -6 on the "Life
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Sucks-O-Meter" so be forwarned and forarmed...;^)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> We can't change the angle of the wind....but we
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> can adjust our sails.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> (Lady in Red)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Herb Parsons
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> From: Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Oh My God!
>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 11:42 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, I think it's a combination of multiple
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> issues. Let's face it,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> if the educational lobby concentrated as hard on
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> issues like the one you
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> just mentioned as they do on increasing funding,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> increasing the size of
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> their bureaucracy, protecting incompetent
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> "educators", etc., those
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> laws
>>>>> likely would never have been passed.
>>>>>
>>>>> At the same time, if we as parents, were more involved
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> in the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> educational process of our children, most of us would
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> be surprised at
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> exactly what we can do. However, in the relative
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> vaccumn of parental
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> involvement, the bureaucracies have thrived like a
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> fungus, and we've
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> ended up where we are now.
>>>>>
>>>>> As Brad alluded to, that's one of the reasons we
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> see people making the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> sacrifices they make to keep their kids in private
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> schools where there
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> the bureaucratic mess is mitigated. And I'm not
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> talking about the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> wealthy, who put their kids in private school without
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> thought or effort.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I'm talking about the working class Joe that makes
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> real sacrifices
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> because they've been scared off by the mess that
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> public school has become.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> elle wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Read the papers, Herb.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Educators haven't 'turned over'
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> discipline; it has been ripped
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> out of their control by laws and regulations and
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> lawsuits.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't tax yourself by making this too hard;
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> just concentrate on
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> looking up the laws regulating the disciplining of
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> special ed students.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> You might want to add in the students on probation
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> who are sent back to
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> school by naive judges.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> That's a fun mix to have in the classroom: a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> kid who knows you
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> can't do anything to him & a kid who
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> doesn't care what is done to
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> him.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh..add a few who don't speak English.....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Great atmosphere for readin' &
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> writin'.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> elle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We can't change the angle of the wind....but
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> we can adjust our sails.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Herb Parsons
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Herb Parsons
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Oh My God!
>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 9:42 PM
>>>>>>> Isn't it amazing how much educators have
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> turned over
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> discipline to
>>>>>>> "professionals" so they can
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> "concentrate on
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> educating"; yet the overall
>>>>>>> education level is declining?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Herb,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It all reminds me of an incident that
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> happened about
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> two weeks ago
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (and a similar incident 2 decades ago when
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> my older
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> boys were
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> youngsters). One of Fan's friends, a
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> Filipino
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> lady who husband was
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> making rounds as Doc on a Saturday
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> morning, made the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> mistake of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> leaving her five year-old with me for the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> morning so
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> they could go
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> shopping. I couldn't wait for their
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> car to hit
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the end of the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> driveway. When they returned, Momma
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> Filipino asked me
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> how "little
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> shithead" and I got along. "Oh,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> just fine,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> he's a sweet kid". I'm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> assuming he was still too scared to tell
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> mom how I
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> picked him up by
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> his britches (therefore scrunching what
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> little nuts he
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> had) to have a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 'mano-a-mano' talk at eye level.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> These
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> gutless wonders who call cops
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> for silly shit they should handle real
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> time not only
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> amaze me, but
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> piss me off.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And you wonder why people work two jobs to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> send their
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> kids to a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> private school where they can be kicked
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> out in a
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> heartbeat?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brad
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 5:55 PM, Herb
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> Parsons
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I read that one too, and was all
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> prepared to be
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> outraged as well;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> however, I think this is a case of
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> creating
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "attention grabbing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> headlines". I suspect that the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> kid turning
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> off the computers of those
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> around him during the computer class
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> was the real
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> disruption that got
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> him in trouble. If you isolate the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> two, it makes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> it pretty apparent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If he was ONLY turning off computers
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> during
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> computer class, would he
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> have been disciplined - most likely
>>>>>>>>> If he was ONLY "passing
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> wind" during
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> class, would have been disciplined
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - probably not
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If the last one was the case though,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> THEN it would
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> have made for a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> really interesting story. Right up
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> there with the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ones about 5 year olds
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> being disciplined for "sexual
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> harrassment" for kissing girls.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now THAT was an art form when I was a
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> kid :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Good thing they finally busted
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> this kid.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Imagine, if you let this
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> kind of thing go on he'd
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> eventually end of
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Governor of some state
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ignoring the slaughter of
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> Thanksgiving
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> turkeys. In my family, "passing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> gas" was considered an art
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> form and
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've always been a competitive
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> person. Thank goodness my school
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> teachers had
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a sense of humor - at
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> least I'd like to think they
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> did.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Brad
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/1121083gas1.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> help with
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> using the mailing list go to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Herb Parsons
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> with using
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the mailing list go to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> using the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> mailing list go to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Herb Parsons
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> using the mailing
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> the mailing list go to
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Herb Parsons
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Herb Parsons
>>
>> __________________________________________________
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>>
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>
>
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--
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