[Rhodes22-list] Oh My God!
Brad Haslett
flybrad at gmail.com
Sun Nov 23 21:21:56 EST 2008
Rummy,
That's not a statement I can agree with. Education is a life long
experience. Even the child from the worst environment has access to a
K-12 education. It may not be the best education, and it may not be
fair compared to other kids born into better circumstances, but they
at least have access. The three most reliable predictors of poverty
are (1) not graduating from HS, (2) having a child out of wedlock, and
(3) getting addicted to drugs or alcohol. Do all three and you are
almost guaranteed failure. When you have kids coming from households
with all three present, no amount of money thrown at "education" will
solve the problem.
The reason private schools do so well with fewer resources is because
they get the students that come from families that don't fit into the
three predictors of poverty. It isn't the education system that is
broken. Throwing more money at "education" will not solve the base
problem.
Brad
On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 8:02 PM, <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
> Brad,
> Funny thing about education, you only get one shot at it.
>
> Rummy
>
>
> In a message dated 11/23/2008 8:42:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> flybrad at gmail.com writes:
>
> Herb,
>
> Speaking from my own experience, there are good public schools and bad
> ones. I was fortunate to go to a good one, well funded (thank you
> Chicago for sending your tax dollars down state), with lot's of
> parental involvement (I've already told the story here about my dad
> making asses out of the school board in public). When my oldest was
> ready to start school in Little Rock it was a no brainer. He went to
> private schools from K-12. My second went to both. Cora is now in
> public school and we couldn't be happier, so far. My bitch with the
> public school system all along is why is the Federal 'gubment'
> involved for any reason?
>
> Obama has mouthed lot's of answers about education and spent lot's of
> other folks money on experiments, but isn't willing to put at risk his
> own daughters (article attached). I admire he and Michelle for using
> their resources to their children's best advantage. He obviously
> feels the same way I do about education.
>
> Brad
>
> -------------------
>
> The Obamas Walk Away from Public Schools
>
> Posted By Andrew J. Coulson On November 21, 2008 @ 9:06 pm In
> Education and Child Policy | Comments Disabled
>
> A few months ago, Barack Obama told a gathering of the American
> Federation of Teachers that he opposes private school choice programs,
> adding: "We need to focus on fixing and improving our public schools;
> [1] not throwing our hands up and walking away from them."
>
> It's not clear whether or not the president-elect will be able to fix
> our public schools, and I don't know if he's thrown up his hands, but
> he and his two daughters have just walked away from the public
> schools. Again. When they move from Chicago to D.C., Malia and Sasha
> Obama will be moving from the prestigious private Lab School [2] to
> the prestigious private Sidwell Friends school — Chelsea Clinton's old
> stomping ground.
>
> Not that there's anything wrong with that. In fact, it's wonderful
> that the Obamas had such a broad range of public and private school
> choices available to them. What's puzzling is that the president-elect
> opposes programs that would bring that same easy choice of schools
> within reach of families who lack his personal wealth. By his actions,
> Senator Obama is demonstrating that he is not willing to wait for his
> own policy prescriptions to "fix and improve" public schools, but he
> expects folks with less ample bank accounts to patiently await his
> hoped-for change.
>
> And while many reports will no doubt trumpet the $25,000+ tuition at
> Sidwell Friends, implying that this is extravagantly beyond what is
> spent in D.C. public schools, they will be mistaken. As I wrote in the
> [3] Washington Post and [4] on this blog, D.C. public schools also
> spent about $25,000 per child in the 2007-08 school year.
>
> It's not that president-elect Obama is against spending a lot of money
> on other people's kids — he's just against letting their parents
> choose where that money is spent.
>
> Article printed from Cato @ Liberty: http://www.cato-at-liberty.org
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 6:46 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>> Interesting. Please do note, MY position is that both the educational
>> community (primarily the administrative, but the teachers themselves are
>> also part of the problem), and the parents share fault in the current
>> situation. Is it really your position that the educational community
>> shares no blame in this mess?
>>
>> elle wrote:
>>> Herb,
>>>
>>> Yep, we are on opposite sides this time...'seeing' the school system from
> whatever angles and being in the employ for two doesn't hold a candle to
> every day for 33 years, in three different levels (elementary, jr high (I
> high-tailed it out of there to the high school when they went to the
> middle-school-hormone-hell model) & high school.
>>>
>>> Ya gotta have the shoes on in order to walk that mile...
>>>
>>> elle
>>>
>>>
>>> We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our sails.
>>>
>>> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Sun, 11/23/08, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Oh My God!
>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 6:31 PM
>>>> Well elle, we're going to have to disagree on this one.
>>>> I pay school
>>>> taxes, thus I DO have a "dog in this hunt". I
>>>> also had 4 children in
>>>> various public and private schools over the years, and I
>>>> did in fact
>>>> spend two years in the employ of a local school district.
>>>> I've seen the
>>>> system from just about every angle possible.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> elle wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, Herb. You know not of which you speak. In fact,
>>>>>
>>>> you acknowledge it at the beginning when you
>>>> said,"Actually, I think ..."
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You may analyze,think, suppose and assume, burt unless
>>>>>
>>>> you spent the years from 1969-2002 in an elementary, junior
>>>> high and high school classroom, with upwards of 120 vastly
>>>> differing 'entitled' students of all colors,
>>>> backgrounds, attitudes, and watched the society change from
>>>> the kid needing correction (being able to paddle (which was
>>>> allowed) to the teacher needs correction ("you
>>>> embarrassed my child when he had no homework....") you
>>>> really have no dog in this hunt.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> elle
>>>>>
>>>>> BYW....FYI I'm at -6 on the "Life
>>>>>
>>>> Sucks-O-Meter" so be forwarned and forarmed...;^)
>>>>
>>>>> We can't change the angle of the wind....but we
>>>>>
>>>> can adjust our sails.
>>>>
>>>>> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic"
>>>>>
>>>> (Lady in Red)
>>>>
>>>>> --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Herb Parsons
>>>>>
>>>> <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From: Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Oh My God!
>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>>>
>>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>
>>>>> Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 11:42 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, I think it's a combination of multiple
>>>>>
>>>> issues. Let's face it,
>>>>
>>>>> if the educational lobby concentrated as hard on
>>>>>
>>>> issues like the one you
>>>>
>>>>> just mentioned as they do on increasing funding,
>>>>>
>>>> increasing the size of
>>>>
>>>>> their bureaucracy, protecting incompetent
>>>>>
>>>> "educators", etc., those
>>>>
>>>>> laws
>>>>> likely would never have been passed.
>>>>>
>>>>> At the same time, if we as parents, were more involved
>>>>>
>>>> in the
>>>>
>>>>> educational process of our children, most of us would
>>>>>
>>>> be surprised at
>>>>
>>>>> exactly what we can do. However, in the relative
>>>>>
>>>> vaccumn of parental
>>>>
>>>>> involvement, the bureaucracies have thrived like a
>>>>>
>>>> fungus, and we've
>>>>
>>>>> ended up where we are now.
>>>>>
>>>>> As Brad alluded to, that's one of the reasons we
>>>>>
>>>> see people making the
>>>>
>>>>> sacrifices they make to keep their kids in private
>>>>>
>>>> schools where there
>>>>
>>>>> the bureaucratic mess is mitigated. And I'm not
>>>>>
>>>> talking about the
>>>>
>>>>> wealthy, who put their kids in private school without
>>>>>
>>>> thought or effort.
>>>>
>>>>> I'm talking about the working class Joe that makes
>>>>>
>>>> real sacrifices
>>>>
>>>>> because they've been scared off by the mess that
>>>>>
>>>> public school has become.
>>>>
>>>>> elle wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Read the papers, Herb.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Educators haven't 'turned over'
>>>>>>
>>>> discipline; it has been ripped
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> out of their control by laws and regulations and
>>>>>
>>>> lawsuits.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't tax yourself by making this too hard;
>>>>>>
>>>> just concentrate on
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> looking up the laws regulating the disciplining of
>>>>>
>>>> special ed students.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> You might want to add in the students on probation
>>>>>>
>>>> who are sent back to
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> school by naive judges.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> That's a fun mix to have in the classroom: a
>>>>>>
>>>> kid who knows you
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> can't do anything to him & a kid who
>>>>>
>>>> doesn't care what is done to
>>>>
>>>>> him.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh..add a few who don't speak English.....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Great atmosphere for readin' &
>>>>>>
>>>> writin'.
>>>>
>>>>>> elle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We can't change the angle of the wind....but
>>>>>>
>>>> we can adjust our sails.
>>>>
>>>>>> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06
>>>>>>
>>>> "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
>>>>
>>>>>> --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Herb Parsons
>>>>>>
>>>> <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Herb Parsons
>>>>>>>
>>>> <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Oh My God!
>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 9:42 PM
>>>>>>> Isn't it amazing how much educators have
>>>>>>>
>>>> turned over
>>>>
>>>>>>> discipline to
>>>>>>> "professionals" so they can
>>>>>>>
>>>> "concentrate on
>>>>
>>>>>>> educating"; yet the overall
>>>>>>> education level is declining?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Herb,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It all reminds me of an incident that
>>>>>>>>
>>>> happened about
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> two weeks ago
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (and a similar incident 2 decades ago when
>>>>>>>>
>>>> my older
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> boys were
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> youngsters). One of Fan's friends, a
>>>>>>>>
>>>> Filipino
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> lady who husband was
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> making rounds as Doc on a Saturday
>>>>>>>>
>>>> morning, made the
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> mistake of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> leaving her five year-old with me for the
>>>>>>>>
>>>> morning so
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> they could go
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> shopping. I couldn't wait for their
>>>>>>>>
>>>> car to hit
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the end of the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> driveway. When they returned, Momma
>>>>>>>>
>>>> Filipino asked me
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> how "little
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> shithead" and I got along. "Oh,
>>>>>>>>
>>>> just fine,
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> he's a sweet kid". I'm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> assuming he was still too scared to tell
>>>>>>>>
>>>> mom how I
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> picked him up by
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> his britches (therefore scrunching what
>>>>>>>>
>>>> little nuts he
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> had) to have a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 'mano-a-mano' talk at eye level.
>>>>>>>>
>>>> These
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> gutless wonders who call cops
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> for silly shit they should handle real
>>>>>>>>
>>>> time not only
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> amaze me, but
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> piss me off.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And you wonder why people work two jobs to
>>>>>>>>
>>>> send their
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> kids to a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> private school where they can be kicked
>>>>>>>>
>>>> out in a
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> heartbeat?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brad
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 5:55 PM, Herb
>>>>>>>>
>>>> Parsons
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I read that one too, and was all
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> prepared to be
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> outraged as well;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> however, I think this is a case of
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> creating
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "attention grabbing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> headlines". I suspect that the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> kid turning
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> off the computers of those
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> around him during the computer class
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> was the real
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> disruption that got
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> him in trouble. If you isolate the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> two, it makes
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> it pretty apparent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If he was ONLY turning off computers
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> during
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> computer class, would he
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> have been disciplined - most likely
>>>>>>>>> If he was ONLY "passing
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> wind" during
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> class, would have been disciplined
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - probably not
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If the last one was the case though,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> THEN it would
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> have made for a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> really interesting story. Right up
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> there with the
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ones about 5 year olds
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> being disciplined for "sexual
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> harrassment" for kissing girls.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now THAT was an art form when I was a
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> kid :)
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Good thing they finally busted
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> this kid.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Imagine, if you let this
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> kind of thing go on he'd
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> eventually end of
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Governor of some state
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ignoring the slaughter of
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> Thanksgiving
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> turkeys. In my family, "passing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> gas" was considered an art
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> form and
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've always been a competitive
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> person. Thank goodness my school
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> teachers had
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a sense of humor - at
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> least I'd like to think they
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> did.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Brad
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/1121083gas1.html
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> help with
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> using the mailing list go to
>>>>>>>
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Herb Parsons
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> with using
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the mailing list go to
>>>>>>>
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
>>>>>>>>
>>>> using the
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> mailing list go to
>>>>>>>
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Herb Parsons
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
>>>>>>>
>>>> using the mailing
>>>>
>>>>>>> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using
>>>>>>
>>>> the mailing list go to
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Herb Parsons
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Herb Parsons
>>
>> __________________________________________________
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>> __________________________________________________
>>
>
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